Insane BTC to XAU exchange rate on RippleTrade

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Re: Insane BTC to XAU exchange rate on RippleTrade

Postby yvv » Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:59 am

stephenrs wrote:Obviously I know what it does, but my point is that if this community wants people to adopt this network and this new age of commerce, it's obviously going to have to take some steps to make sure that new users don't get burned by things like something called "Convert" that doesn't do what intuition and life experience tells you it's supposed to do. A little tool tip saying "This is like placing a market order" would go a long way, for example - because that's what it is - even if it shows the faded grey text conversion rate to you. All I'm saying is that it's in everyone's interest to make this more clear.

My friend who got screwed by this terrible nomenclature is an IT expert and veteran trader, so I feel bad for the more main stream "suckers" who have and will get burned by this. Obviously you're free to disagree with me, or even debate a point that is beside the point, but the fact that the way that Convert works is documented nowhere except on this forum thread, is clearly a problem for adoption and overall usability of the app.

Otherwise, maybe this should only be for people who know off the top of their head what the conversion rate from 249,000.03438982439879 to 0.00005459798274 should be, or for folks that have laptops running rippled in their bedrooms...

I'm off to my Charles Schwab account to enter an after hours Convert order...wtf.


I don't know what are you talking about. For me it is obvious that you hit your thumb with a hammer instead of hitting a nail, and you try to blame a hammer. This is silly.
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Re: Insane BTC to XAU exchange rate on RippleTrade

Postby stephenrs » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:30 am

yvv wrote:
I don't know what are you talking about. For me it is obvious that you hit your thumb with a hammer instead of hitting a nail, and you try to blame a hammer. This is silly.


I'm glad this functionality is obvious to you, but maybe you can get out of your own head for a second, and look at it like this...

I get it that one day we all hope that there will be so much liquidity on the ripple network, and such tight bid/ask spreads that optimally exchanging currencies will be as simple as clicking a Convert button, but we're not anywhere near that yet, so maybe the app should reflect practical reality in some way.

Because there are separate Trade and a Convert options, it makes it seem as if there's a distinct functional difference between them, when in fact, Convert is just a different kind of Trade. Bad UI/UX. How about menu options "Limit Order" and "Market Order"? I'd think these familiar terms would go a long way for users with previous trading experience (you know, the ones most likely to have money to fuel liquidity).

Also, I'd kinda like to think that as the RippleTrade platform evolves, it will be possible to place more sophisticated types of orders - stop limit, stop loss etc. I'd be pretty surprised if folks aren't already working this. If they are, are they planning to come up with new names to describe various trade types? If so, I'll pray that somebody else builds a trading platform for people who already know how an auction style marketplace works, including the terms use to describe the activity that happens in it, rather than reinventing that wheel with a new esoteric and misleading nomenclature.

When you need to exchange money in the physical analog world, unless you don't know any better, you will choose places with a reputation for giving a good rate. For example, anybody who's ever done any international travel knows that you'll almost always get the worst exchange rate at the counters in the airport. Right now, for a new user who gets burnt by Convert feature, RippleLabs looks more like the airport ripoff than the place where you get a good "conversion" rate. For what it's worth.

Since this weird nomenclature threw off 2 guys with above average exposure to markets and modern technology got tripped up by this in 2 days, either we're the dumbest guys in the world, or this is going to trip up other folks. I guess it must be the former.

In all honesty though, you'll have to excuse me for looking at this from a usability/user experience point of view - this what I have to do as part of my daily responsibilities, so I have conversations like this all the time, and it's just difficult not to apply this kind of thinking whenever I'm using a web app - especially when a use case implementation seems poorly thought out.

Also, fortunately I wouldn't call losing about $0.03 USD "hitting my thumb with a hammer" :) So ultimately, I'm not trying to place any blame anywhere - there's no blame to place at all. I'm just offering a suggestion to try to help the app get better and easier to use for more people.

But maybe you're right, the RippleTrade app is the best, easiest to use, and most well documented that it will ever be, especially for newcomers. Sarcasm, in case you missed it.

in any case, I'll leave this alone now, because...I've put waay to much time into it already, and because I'm starting to think you're just a troll.
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Re: Insane BTC to XAU exchange rate on RippleTrade

Postby chase » Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:14 am

It does seem that using common terms like "market order" and "limit order" would be more familiar to people. It's true that the convert feature is not exactly a market order, but in the end the result is the same. Also since liquidity is low, the convert feature is quite unreliable. The term "market order" implies the risk that individuals face when attempting to convert currency.

Anybody can make a trading client, maybe someone should make one that has a more familiar user experience.
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Re: Insane BTC to XAU exchange rate on RippleTrade

Postby PodBayDoorsHAL » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:48 pm

[color=#BF8000]I've already been through that section in the wiki (among others), but it doesn't really help me, because it's a bit too high level. I already understand the conceptual/financial aspects of a marketplace (I'm a fairly active stock/option/forex/ETF/PM trader), and I understand the major concepts underpinning the technology, including the notion of a gateway (I have a software engineering background, and am presently a startup CTO).

I wish the RL execs would sit down sometime and use their product, I mean everything from downloading RippleTrade, through reading the wiki instructions, getting an account funded, through placing and monitoring trades. Take a page from the playbook of the guy who runs Southwest Airlines: consume your own product and see if you like it. If this guy quoted above, who is a very experienced financial markets trader, a software engineer AND a company CTO can't understand it...that tells you something pretty fundamental.
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Re: Insane BTC to XAU exchange rate on RippleTrade

Postby twarden » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:36 pm

yvv wrote:Man, you really need to go through "Ripple for Users" section on ripple wiki before trying to trade any assets.


This x100. +1

stephenrs, I know you are looking at getting GBI XAU, but please do take a look at my thread in the Market/Exchange section. I will be a gateway that offers XAU in Canada. The pricing information, once that is released, is actually quite similar to what is written for XAG currently within that thread.
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An Update and Warning: Insane BTC to XAU exchange rate

Postby stephenrs » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:46 pm

Although I'm currently involved in a back and forth with someone at GateHub, as I try to figure out how to pry my funds from the tight grip that the people behind this elaborate scam have on it, I thought I'd follow up here.

Not long after I started this thread, I concluded that whatever was going on in Ripple Labs or GateHub...or RippleGate, or whatever they decide to call it next, was not deserving of serious attention or putting any serious amount of funds at risk. Not to mention the shady business that is going on behind the scenes if you dig deeply enough. Every interaction with this company has been murky - the same kind of murky that you typically expect from a con artist.

After completing the migration to Gatehub from Ripple, I then set about the evidently arduous process of trying to withdraw my funds. First step: I needed to transfer my funds to a Gatehub hosted wallet - so I did...but POOF! The money was gone. Not in my Ripple wallet, and not in my Gatehub wallet. Gee, did I feel like I was dealing with a reputable organization at that point. After a week or so of back and forth, my funds did eventually turn up...not quite "Instant"... imagine if that happened at your bank. Is this really the best they can do?

I'm following up here because it appears that although they've put lipstick on the pig and given it a different name, they are still engaged in the same chaotic mess that they've always been engaged in...and apparently using the same misguided developers.

I've attached 2 screenshots of the form that you have to fill out to transfer funds between a ripple wallet that you own, and a Gatehub wallet that you own. As you enter the amount that you want to transfer, the message under the input box flashes frenetically between "You cannot send 25 USD. Either your account has insufficient funds, or receiver doesn't accept USD.", or "Analyzing destination"...or a button (yes, really) that says "Pay Options".

In most cases it settles on the first message - no matter how much smaller the value you enter is, compared to the amount you know is available. You have to hope you'll get lucky as the slot machine of messaging spins. Nothing about it is comforting or functional. You can see in the screenshots that I'm trying to transfer the same amount of funds in both cases, but am being shown a different status. Also, the $20 that I'm entering into the form is well below the balance in my wallet.

I recognize this as the same wacky UI/UX technique that RippleTrade used - weird messages flashing on forms, and never telling you quite the truth. An idea that maybe looked good on a whiteboard, but doesn't work AT ALL in practice...Unless it's done intentionally to confuse users, which is not beyond the realm of possibility given this team's history.

So, although I'm awaiting word from their support person, it seems the only way to regain control of the money that I own, that is now being held hostage by Gatescamhub, is to provide them with my banking details. Would you give your banking details to an operation like this?

Run far away from this circus, and stay there. Is there a way to short this company yet?

Screen Shot 2016-03-18 at 3.11.02 PM.png


Screen Shot 2016-03-18 at 3.12.10 PM.png
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Re: Insane BTC to XAU exchange rate on RippleTrade

Postby twarden » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:03 pm

To be able to withdraw your funds from Gatehub, first off you need to verify your identity. Go to the Home tab and click on Connect to Gateway and if you have not been verified then you will be asked to provide photo ID and proof of residence. You can then move your funds from a Ripple wallet to one of their Hosted wallets but you will first need to send 50 XRP to it for activation. Once you have activated your hosted wallet, you can connect the USD Gateway; you are receiving this error because your hosted account does not have a valid trust-line so it cannot receive the USD IOUs you were trying to send.
XAGATE Thread~PreciousWallet.io Thread

Don't worry! I'm pretty sure that I got this under control, the last crazy visionary was was far too insane, but I struck the correct balance.
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Re: Insane BTC to XAU exchange rate on RippleTrade

Postby stephenrs » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:50 pm

@twarden Did you not even READ my post?

To be able to withdraw your funds from Gatehub, first off you need to verify your identity


I verified my identity a few months ago, and completed the additional steps at Gatehub...that's how I was able to:

I needed to transfer my funds to a Gatehub hosted wallet - so I did...but POOF! The money was gone. Not in my Ripple wallet, and not in my Gatehub wallet....


As I already said in my previous post. Did you catch it this time?

you are receiving this error because your hosted account does not have a valid trust-line so it cannot receive the USD IOUs you were trying to send.


No. I am receiving this error because the Gatehub application is as poorly built as rippletrade was. It's a bug, just like the bug that caused my money to vanish for a week. Remember: I was transferring funds between 2 Ripple-controlled wallets...and they lost my money. So much for "establishing a trust relationship".

And if what you're saying was true, why doesn't the application say that, rather than erratically flashing contradictory messages, or leaving the Pay Options button visible long enough for me to click it?

I've completed all of the steps you mentioned, and had already done so long before they lost my funds. I transferred the bulk of my funds in the first transaction, but I left about $40 US in my ripple wallet, because I couldn't get the flaky Send Payment form to approve the full amount - go figure.

But now, as you can see from the attachments, Gatehub can't seem to make up its mind from one second to the next whether I'm allowed to transfer $20 of the remaining $40. Clearly this is a problem with the application, and there's nothing - absolutely nothing - I can do on my end to fix it.

...but thanks for your condescending step-by-step instructions...par for the course in this community, I guess...and you should see how childish and defensive their developers are in their issue tracker. There's nothing about this thing that smells good.

A man may see three options, but a wise man may find a fourth.


A wise man actually reads posts before wasting the time of others with asinine replies.
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Re: Insane BTC to XAU exchange rate on RippleTrade

Postby twarden » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:24 pm

What I believe has happened here is that when you sent the first payment of 20$ to the hosted wallet, Gatehub activated it so they deducted enough from that total to provide your account with 50 XRP. The hosted wallet then probably set trust for the exact amount of USD IOUs remaining after activation then the funds were more than likely received (even though they are not being displayed); That is the reason why I believe you cannot send any more USD to your hosted wallet. Please try and go into the Gatehub wallet then activate the hosted wallet, click Home, then Connect a Gateway and see if a popup opens provides you with any information about your hosted wallet's limits.

I wrote to one of the Gatehub crew and directed them here to read about your experience with their wallet; I'm sure that a representative will either post here or contact you via private message by tomorrow morning.
XAGATE Thread~PreciousWallet.io Thread

Don't worry! I'm pretty sure that I got this under control, the last crazy visionary was was far too insane, but I struck the correct balance.
BCT Thread

I am not affiliated with Ripple Labs.
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Re: An Update and Warning: Insane BTC to XAU exchange rate

Postby GateHub » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:06 pm

Hi stephenrs,

my name is Enej Pungercar and I am the founder and CEO of GateHub. I am very sorry you are having problems with our client and I hope we can help you.

stephenrs wrote:After completing the migration to Gatehub from Ripple, I then set about the evidently arduous process of trying to withdraw my funds. First step: I needed to transfer my funds to a Gatehub hosted wallet - so I did...but POOF! The money was gone. Not in my Ripple wallet, and not in my Gatehub wallet. Gee, did I feel like I was dealing with a reputable organization at that point. After a week or so of back and forth, my funds did eventually turn up...not quite "Instant"... imagine if that happened at your bank. Is this really the best they can do?

Your money was never gone. The reason for the funds not appearing in your hosted wallet is because we are required to verify all users who move money to GateHub. The reason for a delay was simply because we had to manually match the transaction to your account. This issue has been approached better in the new version of our client which now gives you warning to verify your account and prevent you from sending the transaction if hosted wallet account has not been verified yet.

stephenrs wrote:I'm following up here because it appears that although they've put lipstick on the pig and given it a different name, they are still engaged in the same chaotic mess that they've always been engaged in...and apparently using the same misguided developers.

GateHub is independent company and none of the Ripple developers are working for GateHub. While we used Ripple Trade source code as a starting point we are improving the shortfalls of the original code all the time.

stephenrs wrote:In most cases it settles on the first message - no matter how much smaller the value you enter is, compared to the amount you know is available. You have to hope you'll get lucky as the slot machine of messaging spins. Nothing about it is comforting or functional. You can see in the screenshots that I'm trying to transfer the same amount of funds in both cases, but am being shown a different status. Also, the $20 that I'm entering into the form is well below the balance in my wallet.

I recognize this as the same wacky UI/UX technique that RippleTrade used - weird messages flashing on forms, and never telling you quite the truth. An idea that maybe looked good on a whiteboard, but doesn't work AT ALL in practice...Unless it's done intentionally to confuse users, which is not beyond the realm of possibility given this team's history.

Please send me PM with your email and ripple address of the wallet that is causing you problems. We can then examine exactly what's happening and can fix any possible bugs on our end.

I am sorry for the problems you are having but please know we are here to help you. It is in our best interest to keep our customers happy and we know there is much room for improvements. With the help of people like you we can make experience better for everyone.

Please feel free to contact me via PM anytime.

Kind regards,
Enej Pungercar
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